Interview: Warren Haynes of Gov’t Mule

Interview: Warren Haynes of Gov’t Mule

By Martine Ehrenclou

Grammy winning artist and guitar legend Warren Haynes is regarded as one of the most formidable guitarists and vocalists of the modern era. A prolific songwriter and producer, his music career includes leading the Grammy nominated Gov’t Mule band for the last two decades, guitarist for the Allman Brothers Band and The Dead. Haynes is also an acclaimed solo artist and considered one of music’s most treasured storytellers.

Front man for the renowned Gov’t Mule, Haynes and the band just released their 12th studio album Peace… Like A River, co-produced by John Paterno and featuring guests Billy Gibbons, Billy Bob Thornton, Celisse, Ivan Neville, and Ruthie Foster. The new album was recorded during the same sessions as the Grammy nominated Heavy Load Blues in different rooms and equipment to preserve the unique identities of each album. Gov’t Mule consists of Warren Haynes (vocals, guitar), Matt Abts (drums), Danny Louis (keyboards, guitar, backing vocals) and Kevin Scott who replaced Jorgen Carlsson on bass.

Peace…Like A River reflects the changes the world has gone through over the last few years through Haynes’ eyes, and combines rock, blues, soul, and jazz with 70’s rock flavor. It’s a rock and roll feast with deep insights and thoughtfulness.

Warren Haynes joined me on Zoom. I asked him to describe how Heavy Load Blues and Peace…Like A River came about since both albums were recorded at the same time.

Warren Haynes
During the whole lockdown situation, we couldn’t tour, we couldn’t travel, we couldn’t perform on stage. When we had finally reached a point where we were all comfortable being around each other, we figured it was time to go in the studio. We had a meeting with the band members and management, and my wife Stefani, who manages the band. She brought up, what about doing a blues record? It’s something we had talked about a lot. I said, “Well, I love that idea, but what if we made two records at once? Because I have all this material that I’ve been writing thanks to COVID.” The fact that we couldn’t travel forced me into making the best of a bad situation, which meant writing a bunch of songs.

The mission became “let’s find a place where we can set up two completely different sets of gear and record two albums that sound completely different from each other.” Then when we found the Power Station New England– we set up for Peace…Like a River in the big room and set up for Heavy Load Blues in the small room. We would go in about noon every day and work on Peace…Like a River songs till about 9:00 PM, and then take a dinner break and then play blues the rest of the night in the small room next door. That’s what we did for several weeks, that was our schedule, and it was a great way to combat lockdown.

Rock & Blues Muse
I bet it was. This recording and writing for both these albums, would you say they were a bit of a salvation for you with the COVID lockdown?

Warren
It was a cathartic process, because we were all going nuts and it was the only way to get out your creative angst with not being able to perform, so I wound up writing more material than I have in a really, really long time. Initially, the blues album was going to be even more covers, but I wound up writing a handful of blues songs during the lockdown. Heavy Load Blues wound up being half covers and half of my songs. I had all these other songs and I knew that I wanted them to sonically sound completely different. It was a challenge, but hey, that’s what we needed at the time.

Rock & Blues Muse
Your song “Same As It Ever Was,” is just beautiful. Can you tell me a little bit about what you’re going for with the theme? I heard empowerment and ‘peace in the moment.’ You mentioned ancient melodies and letting your spirit fly. I wondered if it was a little bit spiritual.

Warren
It’s about each individual’s own, you could call it spiritual journey or just a quest for inner peace, getting past hardships. It’s very much inspired by the common ground that we all had going through COVID, but the concept is ‘it’s always been like this.’ These are some severe hardships that we’re dealing with, that life could throw you that at any time, and you have to get past it and you have to learn from it, and you have to come out better on the other side.

I feel like on this record, there’s a lot of looking at things as a learning experience and a rebirth and kind of making sure that when you start on the other side, that it’s with a new appreciation of the things that you love the most.

Rock & Blues Muse
Is that what you discovered yourself personally during the COVID lockdown?

Warren
Yeah. Whether it’s family, friends, personal relationships, your work, your creativity, whatever means the most to you, it’s time to embrace it even more. I think we all learned that, and that thread kind of runs through a lot of the songs on this record.

Rock & Blues Muse
Which songs reflect your personal changes?

Warren
“Same As It Ever Was” definitely does. “Made My Peace” touches on losing my dad, which happened during that time period. That was a big blow, my dad was a beautiful person and a great role model for me. The last song, “Gone Too Long,” deals with it in a whole different way. More of one-on-one with your partner, with your life partner and reinventing or discovering a new chapter. The song “Peace I Need” is similar in subject matter, but very different from a musical standpoint.

Rock & Blues Muse
“Dreaming Out Loud,” is another beautiful song with Ruthie Foster and Ivan Neville. You borrowed inspirational quotes from Dr. Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy.

Warren
Yeah, and John Kennedy and John Lewis. I got the idea about 3:00 AM as I was about to go to bed. I got this melody and phrase stuck in my head, “Forgive me, I’m dreaming out loud again.” So I just sang it into my phone so I wouldn’t forget it, and then I went to sleep. When I woke up, I listened to it and it reminded me of the “I Have a Dream” speech, MLK. So for the first time ever, I decided to approach the lyric from a standpoint of utilizing quotes.

Rock & Blues Muse
Tell me about some of the lyrical themes on Peace…Like A River. A lot of river and peace themes. I wondered if you were planning that for the album, or did you just pick songs that had a similar vibe or feel?

Warren
It’s interesting that you picked up on that. The title came from my acknowledging that the word “peace” and the word “river” appeared so many times throughout the song lyrics. When I was going through all the lyrics, I realized that those two words appear tons of times and in different contexts, in different songs, in different musical directions, so I wanted to utilize those two words in the title.

Also realizing there’s two songs that have the word ‘peace’ in the title, there’s two songs that have the word ‘river’ in the title, but even in the bonus EP, those two words just seem to appear in a lot of the lyrics. I had never thought about it, it’s just something in the mindset during that time period. A lot of my songwriting happens late at night, and a lot of it starts out stream of consciousness where I just write until I’m out of ideas, and then go back at a later date and edit and keep what’s good and throw away what’s bad.

I did so much writing during lockdown, I didn’t realize until I went back later that the songs connected as much as they did. Even the more humorous songs like “Shake Our Way Out” with Billy Gibbons. It’s a humorous take on a guy picking up a woman in a bar during COVID, and it’s meant to be funny, and of course Billy singing it makes it even funnier. But even that song connects with everything, and a song like “Head Full Of Thunder,” which is another sense of humor song, they still connect.

“Same As It Ever Was”

 
Rock & Blues Muse
You covered some politics too. I’m curious about “The River Only Flows One Way” featuring Billy Bob Thornton. Can you tell me a little bit about that? I had to look up some of the references that you made, including details about Carter Ruby.

Warren
It’s pretty abstract because it’s like beat poetry. The reason I wanted Billy Bob to talk-sing the lyrics is because they’re pretty esoteric, but in my mind it mostly deals with things you can’t change in life, such as the truth. You can try to change it, but the river only flows one way. A lot of it deals with that in this society that we live in these days where nobody knows what the truth really is. It’s like, and I hate the expression, but chickens coming home to roost. It doesn’t matter if you believe it or not, it matters if it’s real. Confronting it, confronting reality.

Rock & Blues Muse
You wrote Jack Ruby was the queen of diamonds, and “the king is here to stay.”

Warren
Let’s see, that whole line is, “Jack be naughty, Jack be styling,” which is about JFK. Jack Ruby was the queen of diamonds, which is a tongue in cheek play on the rumors surrounding his lifestyle and the fact that he was or was not responsible for JFK’s death. But the “king is here to stay” is really in reference to puppet masters and who’s behind it all, and we’re never going to know. It just happened to be something that I was thinking about at the time, and a lot of it was stream of consciousness. When I went back and circled that part, I was like, “Oh, I like this, this is weird.”

Rock & Blues Muse
You wrote “Your Only Friend,” which to me is a heartbreaking song. Is that a song about an addict?

Warren
Yeah. About enablement and addiction and someone that loses their way time and time again, and trying to help and knowing that it’s futile and eventually throwing up your hands. I think most of us have dealt with some similar situation at some time in our life. It’s a very heartbreaking song. For me in the beginning to the point where I could barely get through singing it the few times that we did it. But I love the song and I’m really glad that we included it, and I love the way it turned out with the string arrangement. It’s beautiful and different from anything we’ve ever done.

Rock & Blues Muse
Kevin Scott is temporarily replacing your bass player Jorgen Carlsson who’s been with you for 15 years. Is that just a temporary situation? I think a lot of people were shocked because Jorgen has been with you for so long.

Warren
Jorgen did an amazing job. His role in Gov’t Mule got better and better year after year. He sounds fantastic on the new record. I’ve always said with any chemistry, it’s great if you have a great chemistry in the beginning, but it’s where you take it if you give it time, that really matters. The fact that we were able to do this for 15 years has really allowed the band to reach a point where there’s a lot of borderline telepathy going on on stage. We’re so familiar with each other’s musical vocabulary and mindsets that we’re able to communicate in a really heavy dimensional way. I can’t say enough about his contribution to the band the last 15 years. Having said that, he’s been quiet-quitting the last few years. We all knew it was coming, but it is heartbreaking.

To answer the Kevin Scott question, Kevin is fantastic and we’re hoping it will be more than temporary. We’ve hired him to complete everything that we have on the books at the moment, but I have a really good feeling about him for the future of this band, and I think he shares that feeling as well. Even though it’s announced it’s like he’s here for the summer, we’re all hoping that he’s here for a new chapter.

For more information on Warren Haynes and Gov’t Mule see HERE